Unknown 0:00
This is Camryn Guillory here with Mr. David Stax. He is the director of the Texas prison Museum, and we're doing our project over the history of the hospital prison. The hospital prison is nicknamed the walls unit, what is the origin of the prison and how he got his nickname?

Unknown 0:22
While the Huntsville unit is the formal name for the original unit that was built underneath the Texas prison system, hitting a commission was formulated prior to 1848 to identify location geographical location to establish the private or excuse me to establish the prison system for the state of Texas. And hustle was the geographical area that they chose to establish the prison. And as a result of that, the unit known nicknamed the walls was actually given that name do because of the significant walled boundary of the perimeter of the prison. You know certain parts of that prison wall can be as high as 30 feet, some that some of it is as high as 15 to 18 feet.

Unknown 1:20
I mean, I know that again, the prison originally has limit only for moral practices, and he has now transferred into a men's only prison. What happened for this to take a big bet. How has this transformation affected women who aren't inmates?

Unknown 1:41
You're sharing with me some information that I'm not familiar with or know that it's accurate. The the prison originally housed man, the very first prisoner to be sentenced to the prison. The state prison system was a man or a Caucasian man from Fayette County. For the offense of a horse. He was soon followed much later by another Caucasian inmate and then as the prison system continued to be more utilized, but the county judicial processes more and more people came to the prison system. As far as women originally being housed at the hustle unit that was not meant for women and there were not women, kept there for many, many years. However, there were women kept there that that is a fact. Some of the inmates that were women that were sentenced to death, and we're put on death row or cap in a special area of the facility. That was not intentionally or originally meant to house death row, female offenders, but they had to find a location for those type of female Death Row offended. Offended persons to be incarcerated so the hospital unit was not originally designed to house women. It was originally designed to house men. But the second part of your question, I think, said what happened for this to take effect and how did it transformation affect women who are inmates? You know, unfortunately, there were women who came to prison and they were not necessarily treated very well. They were abused. That's a matter of fact. If you look at the Archives and the Austin library and things though, they were women who were taken advantage of because they were female and because they were parishioners.

Unknown 3:53
Okay, do you know when the black Texan inmates become accepted into the prison and how did it evolve?

Unknown 4:00
I'm not sure when the first black inmate was sentenced to prison. I do know this the prison after the Civil War, there were several black people who were incarcerated at walls. I think before we need black Texans may have been convicted and sentenced to the prison system, probably some of the very first black inmates to be Capitol walls were union soldiers who are serving the Union army against the Confederacy. And I don't recall the name of the Union boat that was taken under siege by the Texans down in Galveston, but there were many black sailors as well as what sailors on that ship who were taken prisoners and deposited into the Huntsville unit there, downtown Huntsville.

Unknown 5:00
In 1974, the 11 day siege happened and it was the longest hostage taking seasons in US history. What is the story behind it and what is your perspective on it?

Unknown 5:12
Well, it's hard to believe that we're coming up on 50 years since that event happened but that whole event evolved around the idea in a strategy of one inmate by the name of Fred Carrasco. It was more informally referred to as the Carrasco siege. Fred Carrasco was a very prominent drug dealer in supplier from San Antonio. He basically controlled heroin and marijuana market from San Antonio down into Mexico. I guess you could relate him to be a morning equivalent to one of the cartels today. But he was able to orchestrate through his connections with his organization outside to have some weapons delivered to an outside trustee here working for one of the officials outside the prison. And as a result of that outside prisoner not wanting to have some significant bad things happen to him or his family. He basically brought those guns in through some spoiled food staples. They were three pistols or Bandolero full of bullets and things of that nature for this siege to occur. Once they were brought in and they were given into the hands of Roscoe and his compadres, Rudy Dominguez and Ignacio Cuevas. That's when they took the hostages up in the education building. Of Windham school there within hustle unit, which is on the third floor of that building. And that is when the hostage situation began, and it did. It did last for 11 days as your question mentioned, my perspective on that is is being a retired warden. or an employee of the agency it it just shows me the importance of every employee following on following the rules and regulations. Had the officer at the back gate done his searches properly. of the items that were being brought in, he could have afforded that or those weapons from ever coming into the prison. Thus that would have taken a large amount of harass girls ability to take hostages and act the way that he and his compadres did.

Unknown 7:50
Some people seem to view the Texas prison radio as inhumane while others viewed it in a positive light

Unknown 7:57
regarding the fact that it gave inmates something to be a part of instead of being behind bars? What is your perspective on the Texas prison rodeo? Well, I worked at Texas prison rodeo as a young correctional officer and didn't really get to pay any attention to the event is that was not my responsibility. My responsibility was to make sure that the offenders in the spectators kept their distances and there was no inappropriate communications between the two, two groups. I can certainly understand why they would be differences of opinions of the Texas prison rodeo. I can see why some would say that it would be inhumane because there are a lot of people even today that think rodeos in general are abusive to animals and things of that nature and not sure

Unknown 8:52
their opinion and I respect their opinion. I think the fact needs to be stated that none of the inmates that participated in the rodeo were forced to do that. It was strictly a volunteer effort on their part. Not only was it a volunteer effort on their part they had to compete so that only the best cowboys if you will, were able to perform in front of the live audience is so understand that people would think that it might be inhumane because they're prisoners and they may not have a say so as to whether or not they wanted to participate. But the fact is that the prisoners that participate in it volunteered and they had to come. They had to compete against one another, to be able to go to the live show and perform in front of the audience's also it was a way in which they could earn some some money to help support their their way of life in the prison or send money home to their families. View a lab performance. So as my opinion the Texas prison rodeo was a very positive thing.

Unknown 10:37
How does it take this prison museum correlates to the Huntsville prison?

Unknown 10:42
Well, the Texas prison museum is a separate entity than the prison system. The Texas prison Museum is a 501 C three charitable organization that our purpose and how we correlate to the prison is that we tell the history of the prison system from its very beginnings as I mentioned earlier in this interview when it was first commissioned in 1848, to its current day, I think the correlation has to be there for us to be able to give an accurate understanding and accurate. Guess, story to be told about the prison museum or excuse me about the prison system. You know, some of the things that happened in prison are things that we never want to repeat in in Texas. That's why you don't rewrite history we need to learn from our mistakes and go forward. But there's also some things that occur in our prison system that makes better men and women out of themselves. So the correlation here that we certainly tell the facts of the prison, the prison system here at the museum.

Unknown 11:58
What interesting artifacts or main attractions Do you have that most guests come to see when they visit?

Unknown 12:05
Probably the the most attracted exhibit that we have is the electric chair. That's the original electric chair that was used to put 361 Condemn men to death carrying out her sentence of death. 15 parts of the museum's is is what inmates create, while they're there in prison are things that they do to my guess, utilize her time whether it's something that is creative for positive reasons, such as a painting, or some artwork or some type of artistic design are something bad like some of the wooden pistols that had been made that have got some very defined patina that would make you think from a distance Those are real weapons so I think the most sought after attract units electric chair, but probably the one of the ones that I think is the best are the ones that show the skill sets that these men and women have demonstrated while they have been incarcerated.

Unknown 13:25
From the information that, you know, do you think that the huntspill prison system has evolved in a positive way and why?

Unknown 13:33
It's a good question. I do think the prison system has evolved in a better way of operating. Is it perfect? No. I don't know of any prison system that is perfect. I don't know of any system in general that's perfect. Of I think that the prison system what people don't understand is a prison system is very difficult. Very difficult. responsibility to carry out. There have been some significant changes for the good in my observation of being a past employee, and museum director, there have been some things that have changed that weren't necessarily in in the best interest of the inmates, strictly my opinion, and I base that opinion based on my past interviews with inmates in the past. But all in all, I believe the prison system has certainly improved in its way of treatment toward inmates, just not physically, but medically as well as programmatic activities that we can offer them in a way that they may able to rehabilitate themselves.

Unknown 14:59
Do you think the hospital prison has more improvement to do?

Unknown 15:03
Oh, I'm certainly think so. I think as we, as we go on, I don't think we ever should set our sights at a certain level of anything that we do. In any organization, I think that we should always strive to see how we can make things better for a individual or a group of individuals, or a system or government or whatever, I think it's a matter of making the best. Whatever life hands us and I think, I think the prison system attempts to do that. They have a very difficult task and doing it because of all the different coordinator interactions now and laws and things. However, when you can keep it down to the very basics. I think as how you do your improvements.

Unknown 15:59
Do you think the programs inside the Huntsville prison help inmates adjust and gain knowledge on their new life outside?

Unknown 16:06
Yeah, that has been an ongoing charge that the prison system has had for quite some time. You know, starting back in the 60s, well, Windham school district was established, that has gone a long way to helping inmates learn how to read and write and get their basic understanding of educational skills that they can perform a job out there in the world. If someone is not very educated, and they can't do their simple math, or can't speak intelligently or write a sentence, they have a very difficult time gaining employment. I think one of the biggest programmatic activities that I see, the prison system doing now that I'm very far is the the religious practices, giving the inmates an opportunity to change who they are from within just not get an education, but also changed their their methods of why they think the way they used to think why they did what they used to do, and how they can keep from doing it in the future. So they can have a productive life once they get out.

Unknown 17:25
How does your job as the director impact people on the Huntsville prison in a system?

Unknown 17:31
I don't know that I have really an impact on the prison downtown. I think the impact that I would have as a director on a system is making sure that all the employees and just not the employees, but anybody that comes into the prison Museum, that we educate them as to how the prison system started, what were some of the things that didn't go so well, early on and things that we made mistakes upon as a government, as a prison system, the things that we've changed to make it better. You know, I'm a firm believer that if you don't know your history, you're going to probably repeat history and some of it may be good. Some of it may be bad. And likewise, that's why I don't think you rewrite history. You keep your history as it is. Tell the facts. It makes sure you learn from from your facts. If it's a good thing, build upon a good thing. If it's a bad thing, then change it and make it better.

Unknown 18:43
Okay, thank you so much, Mr. Stax.

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