Unknown 0:01
Okay, this is Jose Ramos and I'm currently at the Huntsville Police Department. And it is currently 3:45pm October 21 of 2022. And I am currently with Officer officer Fouch. Officer, how're you doing today?

Unknown 0:19
Fine, sir. Thank you.

Unknown 0:22
Alrighty, sir. So I wanted to go ahead and just ask you a couple of questions over the history of the Huntsville police department and regarding the technology and how it's evolved from back then up until now and so the first question I have for you is, when did the Huntsville Police Department first open

Unknown 0:43
so the city became incorporated in 1879. And although I don't have record going back that far with regards to police department it's assume that we started at around that same time we are one of the oldest police departments in this of Texas in Nacogdoches Texas Police Department being the oldest but we're we're very old agency we weren't called a police department back then they had what was called City marshals and that was one Marshal and then he would have a deputy or two or what we would call a night watchman.

Unknown 1:24
Okay. And and so over the past couple of years ever since the Huntsville began be having its police department. How many different departments has Huntsville had?

Unknown 1:38
Yeah, so just one, but the job has changed like I just previously talked about. So originally it was a city Marshall office and then it Transformed into the city municipal police department.

Unknown 1:58
him and and so then when was technology first introduced to the police department?

Unknown 2:05
So I have a story on that. So radios would have probably been the very first piece of technology used to communicate from the dispatch center to the Metro Law Center. And then back in the early days of our department we were dispatching calls through a call box and so obviously there weren't any radios in the car that wasn't in the hand radios and so the way the officer would get the phone or would get notification and response on plays is he would have to go to a strategically placed phone box within his bead and then up the phone and then call dispatch dispatch saying hey, I need you to go this address, there's been a disturbance and you need to respond. What I found out through my research is that very early on, we forged a partnership with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice and specifically the unit. So the walls unit served as a relay station for our department. They would call the, the walls unit and the walls unit would get, like the calls and then the officers would learn where the call was and then they would dispatch to it. And then shortly thereafter, or about the same time, there was a red light on top of the courthouse around the courthouse and Sarah now is not the original courthouse it burned down. But the original courthouse had a red light on it. And then when that red light would go on, that would be an indicator for the beat police officer to stop this car or to walk to the call box to pick up the phone to talk to the dispatcher to see where the call was. So that was the very first form of technology that I can remember coming across Onslow Police Department.

Unknown 4:11
Okay, and then what year was that again?

Unknown 4:15
That probably would have been in the early 30s

Unknown 4:19
early 30s. Okay. Yeah. All right. So then it's been a while i i, for a minute thought that it wasn't introduced until like the 15th or 60s or 7070s. But that's even more interesting that it was introduced back way back like 1930s.

Unknown 4:38
Yeah, we our department was very progressive with with regards to that because the walls actually had pickets. In, you know, honestly, it's the four corners of the prison system. And then they serve as lookouts and then you know, the overnight, folks they would hear things like a window breaking or car screeching or something. And they would call in, and then a dispatcher would be dispatched to check it out.

Unknown 5:08
Okay. All righty. So then, so then from when you first started to work as a police officer up until now, how has technology changed in the way that you guys work?

Unknown 5:21
Yeah, so dramatically. So my specialty for the majority of my career has been in criminal investigations. And so you can't be good. Oh, fashion police work. And what I mean by that is you go door to door talking to people, and because when you talk to people, people know things, people have heard things and so you've got to put in the time you've got to put in the effort. You've got to walk the scene. And so that has remained the same. But what has changed is when we used to catch back we would catch them in a story. And they would have an alibi. And we would say, Well, what was your alibi? And then, you know, they will produce receipts or we would go and find receipts where they stopped at some place. And we had a date and timestamp, and we could refute their story or their alibi and saying, No, that's not true because I have you in a Walgreens at this date and this time buying this. And then videos came shortly thereafter. Now, it's cell phones. So cell phones are the digital footprint for a criminal investigation. So a lot of people don't know but when you have your cell phone, you turn on location apps, like if you're gonna go check the weather or something. And you know, it's no, no big deal. And if you're a bad guy, you don't have to worry about it. But as you travel up and down 45 There's a series of Sailor towers. As you approach each tower, you're leaving what's called a breadcrumb. And so if let's just say hypothetically a crime occurred in the city of Huntsville last night, and we develop you as a suspect, and we said, hey, we want to talk to you about this. What do you know about this? You know, like I was the air I was in the house. And then if they offer up their phone, which sometimes they do, but it's sometimes they don't, and we go through the proper procedure, a search warrant, and when we gather their phone, we can take their phone and we can do a geo locate on where they were at the time of the crime. And so that has become commonplace and investigation is digital media. You know, if you're posting on Facebook, you can have like a geo marker that's placed where you where you posted that pitcher ad. So everything now is for the most part is digital, and we didn't have that in the beginning.

Unknown 7:58
Okay, so basically you guys are using things that are introduced on phones now like social media and then like the location on the current apps that we use to be able to determine whether what a suspect is saying is true or not.

Unknown 8:11
That is correct. We use it for a secondary piece of evidence. So obviously, eyewitness is the best or confession is the best but then we have what we call a collateral evidence and that is, you know, a date time stamp on a phone or geolocation opposing of a social media pitcher or a text thread and what the text thread contain a Google search what they search, I mean, all these things are are taken in consideration.

Unknown 8:52
Okay, already that's very interesting. And so then when did police officers first start working with computers in their vehicles?

Unknown 9:04
So you're talking about the mobile data terminal in most departments in the early 90s, maybe late 80s or mid 80s, actually mid mid 80s large departments have it had mobile digital terminals, and basically the reason why was because radio waves were getting clogged up because you're in a urban environment everybody's getting on the radio, running or doing a traffic stop, or dispatches trying to send money to a hardcore like a burglary in progress or something, and you could not getting ready to go to. so it was created out of necessity to communicate with the officers in the field and the Huntsville Police Department did not get those until probably that early 2000s I started in 1995 We did not have those at the time and then probably five years later we started filtering those and but it wasn't a perfect system because the infrastructure wasn't built yet and then so over the years the infrastructure has come north from a major metropolitan area and so with the infrastructure you can now communicate seamlessly from the patrol unit to the dispatch

Unknown 10:55
Give citations Where do the Where does what exactly does that come from? Like when you print out the paper and everything?

Unknown 11:02
Yeah, so that that is another technology advancement. So back in the day, we would hand write citations. And in the event of no computers go down or something, we still have access to that. But the preferred method now is what's called an E ticket rider, electronic ticket rider. And essentially, what the author does, he takes your driver's license, and he can swipe it. And everything that's on your driver's license will auto populate. So whatever the address is, it'll populate. And then he'll ask him questions about phone numbers and stuff like that is kind of problematic in Huntsville, because majority of our students do not reside locally, nor do they have a local address. So you always have to ask for a secondary address because the address on their driver's license more than likely is their home residents back from wherever they're from. But it will auto populate in there's a thermal printer inside the E ticket writer, and then it will print out the citation. Let me hand it to the to the violator.

Unknown 12:13
Okay, yeah, cuz I was always, back when I was a kid, I always, um, so I would walk through this one cartoon that I watched. And I just, I really didn't know until I grew up that when you get a citation, it's in the system, because I saw it in this cartoon that I watched growing up, they made it seem like you get a citation, and they forget about it. And this dude had like, his, like, glove department filled with, like, 30 citations. And so I always like, as a kid, I thought, like, oh, like a ticket, they'll forget about it. But then as I grew up, I realized no, they, you know, they have it in the system. And especially now with technology, I know that once they give you a citation then in the system, but, um, and so on to the next question. And so how were criminal records kept back then then come how they were today.

Unknown 13:04
Yeah. So as you can imagine, I don't know how old you are. But if you remember the Dewey Decimal System System in the library, so in order to check out the book, you would go to the library, and you would go to the index, catalog, and then you would look it up, and then you will pull out a car, then you have to go and find it. Well, back in the day, we actually still have those records, because we have to keep them for an extended period of time on certain offensive, like felonies. The rate of retention is in effect, but it was paid for copies. And so each arrest, each arrestee had their own file. And basically it was all their bio markers, the name, date of birth, social place of birth, and last known address last phone number, and then repeat offenders. Obviously their file would get bigger, you know, you would have your town drunk, she would have your, you know, people who got in fights a lot. So, basically, you somewhat got profiled because of your arrest, because you you know, and you know, 20 Let's just say 2019, not so much 2019. But let's just say knocking 72. You were involved in four bar fights, and he got arrested each time. And so you would have four fights in your in your record, a lot of that now is it is digitized and we don't maintain the records. We maintain the local copy. But we send everything to the Texas Department of Public Safety criminal records division, and they are the state clerk. clearinghouse for maintaining criminal records. When you get arrested, you get fingerprinted. And those fingerprints go both to DPS and both to FBI. And you get a unique identifier. A number to your name in the state of Texas. It is a CID number. And then FBI actually has an FBI number. And that number will track you throughout the entire criminal justice process. So you're arrested, you're innocent till proven guilty. You have a show up eight answer to the charges. You make a plea. If you plead not guilty, then you set it for trial. And then so that unique identifier will record your activity within the criminal justice, criminal justice system on that one. offense that you I committed.

Unknown 15:58
And so when exactly does the your information begin to get passed on to like the FBI?

Unknown 16:03
immediately, immediately? So yeah, yeah, a lot of that is before. And that's another technological advantage. Before we would we still do hand roll fingerprints. And it would take a timeframe like a 10 day window to send those off through the physical mail. Now, those are digitized and immediately uploaded. And that's been beneficial for Mike wanted felons, people who get arrested, and they're wanted from another state for, you know, heinous crime or something, we immediately can identify them as, from their fingerprints, fingerprints are unique to each individual. And then that's the other way that technology has changed before it was all about fingerprints. And now it's all about DNA. And DNA is as as has become so commonplace that it's hard for you to walk into your room and not leave some form of DNA. And that's very unique to you. More so than a fingerprint.

Unknown 17:11
So like a piece of hair, or a piece of clothing or anything like that, or skin that

Unknown 17:17
yep, yep. And there's, there's a rule that it's hard for you to walk in a room and not leave some form of DNA, whether you touch something or whether you scratch your head and you know, piece of dandruff or something falls out. And that's all considered DNA evidence.

Unknown 17:37
Oh, that's really interesting. And so then what is the most old school police instrument that you guys still have today?

Unknown 17:47
Yeah, so there's a couple. But what what she's right from the very get go to me out is the is the police baton. So the police baton over the years is not favored. Well, with regards to public opinion, but it's created to create distance from you and somebody that's trying to call you Claro. That is the whole purpose of the baton. And so back in the day, it was a straight the time. And so you could, you know, push that baton out in front of you and keep somebody away from you until you got help or get away or take control and then vigil. And then now we still have batons, but they're collapsible batons. And so you don't really see them there on the the officers build. And then when the officer deploys them, those swing it out, and it will go to extended length. And it's this designed to create distance between you and somebody trying to hurt you. And they've been around forever.

Unknown 18:58
Do you know an estimate of exactly what around which decade they've been around?

Unknown 19:04
Yeah. So if you're at the police department, I actually have some pictures. The earliest pictures that I have are from the mid 30s. And there's pictures of the officers and they have a baton on their belt. So it's been around for a long time. I would probably I mean, even the Bobby's in, in London had headbutt had the batons?

Unknown 19:38
Yeah, I've seen I've learned in my intro to criminal justice class A couple years back that, that the bobbies back then in London that they that's the main thing that they used when it came to like, when they would walk around in patrols, and then they would have the batons on them. Yep. Okay, and then has technology been a burden in any way to your job?

Unknown 20:03
No, we've have learned to adapt and change. So as you know, change is always difficult. And so when something comes on, relatively quick, there's a learning curve. And so we've got to get people trained, and we got to get people up to speed. This is what we're doing. And we have to create policy. We have to be respectful for people's constitutional rights with regards to you know, unreasonable searches and seizures and and then make sure that we're following the law. And so, as each new piece of technology has come online, it's become an extra tool and offers tool kit to bring people to justice. And then, you know, technology is only as good as the data put in. And so you can imagine If you run reports, you know, and you're trying to, to do data driven policing about, you know, crime in a certain area, like how many, so like our big hot topic right now is kallada converters. And so, you know, we've got groups of people coming up from the Houston area for the most part, and they're targeting our college community in the apartment complex, and they're targeting Toyota vehicles. And, you know, specifically the toyota tundra is because they have two catalytic converters, so they can get, you know, double bang for their buck. And so when you're trying to do data driven policing, and you're trying to figure out how many we've had over this past year, that data that's in there is only as good as the person inputting it. And so, you know, make sure that it wasn't miscoded when it came in, because instead of 40, you know, we're looking at 38 When in fact, it's 40. But, you know, some data clerk or some records clerk did not enter correctly, and so you don't have a an accurate account. And then like we're currently experienced, and now we have a computer outage. And so that will happen from time to time with viruses and stuff like that.

Unknown 22:14
Okay. And so finally, so what new technology is being made now for the future use of the police department?

Unknown 22:25
Yes. So not just for the police department, but in law enforcement in general, just came back from a international chief police convention in Dallas, this past weekend. And, you know, their showcase, they're showcasing that new technology. And so the new thing now is drones, we have a couple of drones. And, you know, drones are another tool toolbox are able to help on rescue missions are able to get, you know, entail on violent crimes, you know, before you go up on a location, or before you do a SWAT operation, you can use the drone and get as much information as possible. And information is very key when you you know, seconds count. And so the more information you can Armand also responded to a call, or that's on a call, to better prepare himself to, you know, to meet and overcome the danger that he's about to face, then, you know, that's a good thing. And so, you know, getting information to the officer quickly, using their cell phones, the officer have been able to use cell phones to take pictures on scene and then relay that information back to like a command station, or like on a barricaded subject, or, you know, hostage situation kind of thing. So those are all coming into play. Radar is always been around, but radar is getting better. It's laser radar. So first speed detection. And then they actually have technology now, where taken from the military side, is if you have an individual that's inside of a residence, they can scan the outside of the residence, and they can see if there's anybody that's inside, it's called the flare, it's, like, picks up body heat. So if you've got somebody and then I time that's hiding from the police, or you know, there's a lost child or something, then you can fly flayer or you can, the flares are on the spotlights of the car, and you can use that and that can help you identify folks from their body heat.

Unknown 24:41
Okay, and so this is already being being put into use.

Unknown 24:46
Yep, it's already being put into use and then. So a smaller agency or midsize agency like us, there's always budgetary constraints. And so we don't always get the latest and greatest. But we try it through grants and stuff. And so it's kind of a delayed process. But, you know, we're, we're behind maybe a year or two, but some agents, other agencies have stuff like that as already as well.

Unknown 25:16
Alrighty. Alrighty, Officer Phelps. Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. It was really interesting to just get to know how polio worked years back and then how y'all continue to do things now and then how the technology works nowadays. And I've just thank you for your time and it just really because me growing up, I would see all these things on TV and so like, I never really knew how it worked or just the in person when I would drive around town seeing the police officers and the different things that they have like the radios or the the mobile what's it called the

Unknown 26:01
MDTs mobile mobile data terminals.

Unknown 26:04
Yes, sir. And and yeah, it just, just thank you so much for informing me on all of this.

Unknown 26:11
No problem. I wish you the best of luck on your project.

Unknown 26:14
Thank you very much. Officer thoughts you have a good day. Thank you for your Take care.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai